Bongiovi Reworked -- Topographic

[Peter Toth]

Hello Guild,

I posted this map to the "Finished Maps" section two days ago, and it was quickly buried without generating a single reply. Thus, I've reworked my process, creating the revised copy below. I've included the original for comparison underneath the reworked copy. Nothing else really to say, although I AM still determined to master the art of cartography.

Again, if you have any advice on how I can continue to improve, please comment.

Finalproj.png

Bongiovi Final.png

Thank you.

[waldronate]

It looks like you can generate a height field that plausibly represents terrain of a certain scale. That's good. It's more than a lot of folks can do, especially given the tools that you're using. However, a height field is a long way from making a final map!

You seem to have settled on hypsometric tinting with contours and a hint of lighting for the base map. That's a good start, but you're missing a real map key (you have a scale bar, but that's only part of a key). You have color, but what do those colors mean? Are they uniform (one color = X meters of elevation) or are they non-uniform (green=0-250 meter, brown=250-400 meter, gray=400-500 meter, white=500+ meter)? Do the river colors signify anything? Is the apparent lighting for any function other than decoration? What is the meaning of the different symbols and different fonts on the map? If it's a technical map, what is the projection and what is the printing agency? Do the lines around the border have any meaning?

I recommend picking up some real maps that are broadly similar in style scale and look at them. See what the cartographers did and see if you can figure out why they did it. Then do the things that make sense for your map.

I think of a map as an abstraction of a place, done for a client for a reason, and fixed in a particular medium. I grant you that making pictures with no purpose is kind of fun, but you really only get much better by intentional practice (that is, practicing for a purpose). A hard challenge for this kind of work is to make a high-level overview map and then a couple of zoomed-in versions of that map (continent, region, country, county). You'll learn what parts are easy to do and you'll learn about the importance of different levels of abstraction at map scales.

[Peter Toth]

Thank you Waldronate!

I can see why I didn't receive any comments. Yes, I agree that other than a height field, my map really isn't much to look at. Honestly, I believe that with the height field, I'm 95% towards my goal of creating the final map, effort-wise. I have VERY high standards for this portion, and that is why I've concentrated on this aspect at the expense of other important details such as legends, projections, and even the map's ultimate purpose. I admire maps done by Morne, Naima, and Ilanthar, and thus have strived hard to emulate their map style, especially their topography. (By the way, I'm continuing to "test out" and refine my topography algorithm, which doesn't rely on existing satellite DEMs and therefore is rather difficult to fully execute. When I've succeeded at this, I believe everything else is child's play. I just want the map to look like an atlas.)

Again, thank you for the good honest critique. Perhaps I should have originally entered my map into this subcategory instead of into New Maps.

You can bet that my next map will include all those essential features you've referred to.

Peter

[waldronate]

When I set out to generate a quickie map, I can usually get a plausible height field and something colored in an hour or so (your mileage will vary, of course). It takes many more hours to get something resembling a decent map, because there is a huge amount of effort that goes into managing the human-important aspects like cities and roads. Even a fairly simple map like the ancient Wilburia one that I did (an early example of Wilbur use) for one of the challenges ( https://www.cartographersguild.com/s...ad.php?t=28052 with full resolution at http://fracterra.com/wilburiax.jpg ) had comparatively little time on the underlying terrain and hugely much more work into the labels and coloring choices. The large amount of work on getting the other things on there that are interesting to a human is why I tend to not do much in the way of finished maps these days.
The Wilburia map also shows one of the great failings of the Wilbur erosion models: rivers that tend to wander along next to each other for a long time before merging. It's tough to get rid of and harder still to get rid of if the valleys get too etched into the terrain.

[chateauferret]

Nice looking map.

I would have thought there ought to be a big river running through the middle of the Lilium plain - there seem to be rivers running around the edge of it but not really much water draining northwards from the mountains. The course of the Kevelkorn seems a bit convoluted, you would think it would go out through the plains, wouldn't you? There isn't any relief to the north of the river as it flows eastwards to explain why it follows this course.

[Veldrin]

I pretty like the old version but the new one is much better. I missed your thread in the finished maps section (I didn't post for a long time but I was still roaming over here ^^) but as I already told more or less in another of your threads, I really like what you're coming up with I'm also fond of atlas style and I feel you're on a super cool way imo
The map itself is really good, you have lots of details in the reliefs, it is precise and clear and I guess you've a very nice background for your map (it's almost painful to call it a "background").

Is there a reason why the sea height levels are not delineated, as it is on the landmass? (just a question, nothing that needs to be)

Besides, if you want to kill those pixels in your lines, I would suggest to generate your map in black and white (if it's not already your process), then loading it on a vector-based soft (illustrator, maybe inkscape), vectorize and round a bit the lines (I guess, but should be tried). Then you switch to another soft (or not) to put your textures and go on. But again with this point, I'm not sure it is necessary.

[Peter Toth]

Thank you Waldronate, chateauferret, and Veldrin!

Yes, I've noticed the tendency of Wilbur to significantly delay the merging of rivers, so naturally I'm determined to find a way to circumvent that problem.

On my original map of Bongiovi, I had flattened a vast tract of land to create the Lilium Plains, but somehow neglected to update the river flow. (And all my rivers are on a separate Photoshop layer.) This is why the rivers emptying into Valotte Bay seem to follow illogical paths.

Thank you Veldrin, for your positive comments. When I “stroked” the contours of this map, I somehow instinctively decided not to stroke the sea height levels, thinking that perhaps it would detract from the map's simplicity and aesthetic appeal. But perhaps my instincts were wrong. So, I'll try to experiment with stroking the sea contours in future maps. Thank you for the suggestion.

I would LOVE to attempt learning Illustrator, but unfortunately my finances are so meager that I can barely afford Photoshop at this current time. Then of course there's the learning curve, although I don't think that would present a problem, being so familiar with Photoshop and GIMP. As I start branching out and developing my cartography skills, I hope to invest my time into learning new software, as well as the subject of geomorphology. My guiding ambition is to find a way to accurately render topography without relying on satellite DEM data (I know I must have said that over a dozen times by now, LOL.), and combine that skill with everything I learn from critiques by individuals such as yourself. The final product: a realistic topographic atlas style fantasy map that could very well exist "out there."

Again, thank you for the critiques.

Peter

[waldronate]

Yes, I've noticed the tendency of Wilbur to significantly delay the merging of rivers, so naturally I'm determined to find a way to circumvent that problem.

The simplest way to address the problem to some extent is to get your terrain to where you'd like it, then save the terrain as an MDR file and the various color elements that you'll want in Photoshop. Then do a blur in Wilbur, fill basins, and only then generate the river image. The choice of blur will determine how soon rivers are forced together, but will also smooth out the rivers. In the common Resample -> Noise -> Height Clip -> Fill Basins -> Incise Flow loop, adding a blur between Height Clip and Incise Flow will significantly change the character of your terrain, including how the rivers join.