Question on derivative work copyrights

[Naima]

DO derivative work have to be included in copyrights agreements?

two cases:

• Suppose you create a world map for a client, then he in the future will have the need to create a new map for a portion of the world to be represented in book or other media may be with another new style , new map etc but based on the shapes and work of the originally made one ... is this considered a derivative work ? Should be included a clausole in contracts of any kind?
  
• Another example imagine Game of Thrones if you make a map based on it can you sell it by your own or there are copyrights infringments?

[waldronate]

Generally, the rights that you assign to a client should be spelled out in the contract. In the US, derivative works are subject to copyright and the copyright owner must protect their copyright through some legal means (e.g. DMCA takedowns or other legal means) or risk losing that copyright.

[Redrobes]

Also, you can only copyright that which is novel and created by you. The bit of the map that it is based on is someone else's copyright and the bits you added are yours. But if there is part of someone elses copyright works in your map your still at risk for the proportion of it that is protected. Also, you can only copyright an artistic work not an idea so you can have a completely novel map with novel names etc and say it is based in some book location and its ok. Just don't mention anything that was created in the book.

[Naima]

So ilets say I make a worldmap for a client, all the shapes of coastlines etc ... copyrights to use it are paid etc, what if the client decides wants to make a future new map based on that work , that follows same coastlines and geography traced but with a different style and janother artist may be , is that considerate a derivative work ? should be considered copyright linked to the original still?

and the second point, selling maps made on like Tolkien , westeros , or other notable franchises worlds is a copyright proibited?

[Redrobes]

So ilets say I make a worldmap for a client, all the shapes of coastlines etc ... copyrights to use it are paid etc, what if the client decides wants to make a future new map based on that work , that follows same coastlines and geography traced but with a different style and another artist may be , is that considerate a derivative work ? should be considered copyright linked to the original still?

Yes - if the coastline shapes are sufficiently recognizable. That bit of the map is derivative. In the same way that Ed Sheerans songs are unique to him he still gets to take a trip to court to argue whether bits of it have been taken from previous tracks.

and the second point, selling maps made on like Tolkien , westeros , or other notable franchises worlds is a copyright proibited?

Yes obviously. Whilst a lot of people make fan art, and forums like this talk about orcs, beholders, the Lannisters and whatever else, the selling of art based on this stuff definitely crosses the line. You are also into the area of trading under someone elses trademark too.

Whilst all this is the case, IMO the bar is set too low for all of this stuff and people should be able to make their own creations with some flexibility over the minor details. I am only saying what it is not what it should be. It would also help if there was some method by which you could get a known up front liability for making derivative works. The justice system around the world is a bit of a sham and a grift. The fact that there is no definitive way of asking _if_ something is legal or not is an utterly ludicrous situation. And that to this day there is still no method of actually getting a free searchable text description of the laws is a farce and a scam perpetuated by the legal institution to maintain the state of quo where people cannot challenge it without having to go through barristers and all the other the same people maintaining this scam system.

This is another area where the new ChatGPT and similar will have great effect. In fact this week is the first court case where an AI is doing the legal arguments.

EDIT - Ahh of course, real lawyers shut down the AI case - what a surprise. Didn't take them long... Still, if there was ever an area for disruption then this is it. Its only a matter of time.

[Naima]

Ah ok so if I make a Tolkien map , in my style and so on I do need to contact Amazon to know if I can sell a copy ? Or if I make a Westeros map who should I contact ? OR I can just do and sell a print?
Not sure of the AI case, what happened?

[mariaoglesbyart]

It would count as derivative work unless the source material is over 100 years old, in which case it would be in the public domain and free to use. Generally, yes, that is copyright infringement, but also pretty much every con has artists selling fan art and some of them make a decent amount of money on it. It's possible you could get sued or slapped with a cease and desist, though the odds are fairly low. Sucks if it happens though.

Re: the first question, in my contracts I make it clear that I own the copyright to work created and they are paying for the creation and licensing of the work for use in whatever project. Usually you give a time frame, ex. the interior of the book and any associated promotional material regarding the book printed over the next 2 years.

After that they would need to pay an additional licensing fee to use it again. That said, this is the sort of thing an agent would demand, lots of artists without agents who need the commission money can't be as picky. Generally it's a good idea to never sell the copyright to your work though - if a customer ever asks me for the copyright I charge triple and they usually change their minds. If you're working for a big company like Disney some of them have really strict ownership contracts, but in the freelance world that's a lot less common. Hope this helps!