Jan / Feb 2016 Lite Mapping Challenge: Map a Tomb VOTING

[Diamond]

Hmmm. Well, from my perspective:

1. We're not an architecture site, per se, although there is some overlap.
2. There are no voting criteria - we vote solely on what we, as individuals, find appealing (ideally the vote should be towards the entries that best fulfill the brief also, but this isn't the Oscars - we're not that strict).
3. Just because folks are mapping things that have been mapped before, it doesn't invalidate the entry. If there was One True Way of mapping something, no one would ever attempt another version, and what a boring world that would be. It feels like you're invalidating your own argument also, by suggesting that the Taj Mahal would've been a better choice, based on your opinion that it is a more beautiful tomb. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and all that.
4. There's no 'old boys network'. We don't railroad people's votes. Of course we have a definitive preference for what we like - that's what makes us human.

Hope that helps.

[Greg]

And adding to what myself, Max and Diamond have said, the challenges give great opportunities to push your skills and try maps you otherwise wouldn't have created. The voting, even if different people judge in different ways, nevertheless adds that competitive edge that just motivates people on further and gets people to push their cartographer that bit more. This was my first entry and I created a map I wouldn't have ever made otherwise and found it such a joy to be a part of (and of course it is satisfying to get votes too ).

[Gudern]

@Gudern

I understand what you're saying Gudern and can definitely see where your coming from. Obviously everyone has different criteria to use when voting and it is always disappointing when you feel like a piece has been overlooked or is undervalued. Personally, .

Thanks for your answer, I understood that for you the lay out is (the most ?) important criterium.
But you have this kind of layout on most tourist leaflets : a general country map -> a zoom on the area of interest -> photographs of interesting buildings/features.
Yes it is a good and practical idea for tourists but it's already been done industrially because it's the most efficient idea to transmit information about features on different scales on a single sheet of paper.

Well of course I would understand that everybody has different criteria but then the votes would be all over the place.
Here it is the contrary - obviously everybody used the SAME criteria and if my life depended on it I can't see what it is.
This is not about me and I am not "disappointed". Why should I ? And I also didn't suggest to anybody to use any kind of criteria that I could but must not agree with.
I just would like to understand what are the criteria that apparently everybody is using here, at least during votes.
I would rather imagine that this quasi unanimity is a kind of group think where it's mostly those who share it who vote. Not certain - it only looks like that. Large majorities or unanimities are always telling about group cultures and collective preferences.


Diamond

No you misunderstood me. When I saw this picture of Glasgow cemetary first time, I spontaneously thought about Taj Mahal which would be even better if one is into copying.
It's because the majority considers that Taj Mahal is the most perfect example of tomb architecture (polls, UNESCO etc) - this doesn't disqualify the minority who doesn't think so but it still stays a minority.
But I didn't think one second to actually do it because for me , and it is surely a personal opinion, one doesn't go in contests with a copy and paste work which is then just arranged on a surface and edited.
Anyway I came here mostly because of curiosity and hoping to learn something new and original - I don't intend to participate on these challenges even if I have pleasure to watch some of the creative works.
Unfortunately you didn't tell me what your criterium was (if you voted in this contest)

[J.Edward]

I don't normally throw in on issues like this... but what the hell. My two cents may only be worth a half cent to others...

These are challenges. Not expressly competitions. They can be competitive, and technically you win something, so they can seem like a competition.
But they're challenges. I always take that to mean 'to challenge yourself' but obviously others don't seem to see it that way.
If the win-lose is all that matters to someone then I feel like they have lost the whole point. And the ultimate value of these challenges.

It seems like almost every time we do one of these there's this same echo...
the winning piece shouldn't have won. Other pieces were better for reason x or y.
It's a tough world. Buck up. Life goes on.
Challenge yourself. Develop new skills. Make cool maps.

[Greg]

I understood that for you the lay out is (the most ?) important criterium.

Layout is certainly an important criterion, but for me in is how the piece holds up as a whole. I have no set criteria for judging what I deem good or bad, but often just go by my instinct and gut feeling and sometimes find it difficult to word. In this instance the layout did play an important part, but it wasn't solely the layout, but how the different elements worked together. Yes you get similar layout in leaflets, but I don't think that is very relevant. ChickPea used the layout to clearly and effectively present her map and the way she drew and compiled the elements together worked together beautifully. A leaflet may take the same layout, but would likely not have the same artistry behind it (likely just isolated images of the tombs and a less detailed plan).

Well of course I would understand that everybody has different criteria but then the votes would be all over the place.

I again see your point, but cannot answer this, because I can only say how I vote on it.


Edit: Ditto that, J.Edward.

[Gudern]

I don't normally throw in on issues like this... but what the hell. My two cents may only be worth a half cent to others...

.

Well for me it's worth 0 cents because it didn't even attempt to answer my question.
I didn't expect to trigger immediately so many agressive reactions with a simple question.
So I'll repeat it again - "What were you criteria for voting for the map that based on copying" .

Please spare me linguistical distinctions between challenges and contests, that is not the question. The question is about vote criteria. Why ? Because there was a vote and I'd like to understand why.
You can answer that you don't really know.
Or alternatively you can also answer "Shut up and go away, we don't like people asking about why we vote"
I can live with both.

[industrygothica]

Here's my criteria:

1. Does the map fit within the confines of the challenge? ie., when the rules are "Map a Tomb", did you map a tomb or an ocean-side villa.
2. Is the map complete? I won't vote for an unfinished map.
3. Is it pleasing to look at?
4. Is there any artistic value?

If the answers to all of those questions are "yes," then you've probably got my vote.

In the case of ChickPea's map, she's met all my criteria, and she received my vote. She did not 'copy' the architecture there, as you make it sound like a simple copy and paste. She used a vector-based drawing program to replicate it, and has displayed phenomenal skill in doing so.

In short, I vote for what I like. You don't like it, don't vote for it.

Side note: This community thrives on constructive criticism--it's what makes us better. But I have to tell you that I think your criticism is somewhat less than constructive, and teetering on offensive. I realize you say that you meant no offense, but just because you didn't mean to run over the cat doesn't mean it didn't happen.


-IG

[Diamond]

I don't really think there's some Illuminati unspoken 'same criteria' that we all judged by; we just all happened to like the same things in the same entry (I'm presuming). I personally like the layout, the color scheme, the clarity of presentation, and choice of topic.

[ChickPea]

Hey Gudern, I'm the creator of the map that has you so puzzled, and I'd like to address a couple of your points. Also, I want to make clear that I'm not offended in the slightest by your questions. It's never wrong to seek clarification.

I believe you feel my map lacks "creativity and originality"? I'd like to explain what went into making the map. I live near Glasgow, and I took the train up one Saturday morning and went to the Necropolis. I spent well over an hour wandering around, taking lots of photos, and checking out the monuments to decide which I'd like to include. I admit I downloaded the map of Scotland from Wikipedia but that's a very small part of the whole. The larger monument was hand-drawn and shaded in Gimp, using my own photo as reference. You may feel it's a "literal copy of photograph", and that's actually something of a compliment, because I was aiming for a hand-drawn, lifelike representation. The two smaller monuments were created from scratch in Inkscape, with a little bit of touching up in Gimp. The colour palette was created entirely from my imagination without referring to any other resource. Same with the layout. I spent a long time on the layout moving things around to see what worked best.

If you feel this lacks creativity because it resembles something that's been done before (i.e. a tourist ad), well, I'd have to argue that almost everything has been done before! The trick is to take inspiration from those other things and put your own stamp on it. I guess you feel that I've failed in that and my map is rather derivative. I'm OK with that, because no piece of art will ever please everyone. Personally, I'm very satisfied with what I achieved and I'm thrilled that others liked it enough to vote for it.

But onto your question about why people vote the way they do. Oh boy, if only I knew! I could win every challenge! But seriously, as others have said, there are no hard and fast rules on how people should vote. The only real criteria is that they view how the final work compares to the brief. The rest is entirely down to personal opinion and taste. Some members value certain skills over others and they will vote accordingly. This is neither a 'right' nor 'wrong' approach. Members simply chose what pleases them most based on their personal criteria, and, as your comments clearly highlight, what shines for one is derivative and unimaginative for another. Not sure I'd have it any other way?

The only part of your comment I really must take issue with is the idea of 'an old boys network'. I've only been here for little over a year myself (and I'm female!) and have received with nothing but friendly encouragement from the beginning. Another entrant this month, Wolram, won a challenge within weeks of joining the site. A couple of months back a new member won with (I think) one of the first maps s/he'd ever posted. There's no doubt some members win a lot, but only because their work is exceptional, not because of any personal standing in the site.

I'm sorry we can't give you a definitive 'this is how it is' type of answer. There simply isn't one. Every person who voted has their own reasons for their choices, which you may or may not agree with. I'm also sorry tempers are getting a little fraught. Let's all try to respect each others' opinions, whether we agree or not.

[Chick]

I, too, have to admit that the reason I did not vote for ChickPea's map is that it looked like mostly a copy/paste of other internet sites, and tracings of pictures (whether she took them, or they were already on the web). For example, http://www.glasgownecropolis.org/wp-...mpartments.jpg and https://www.google.com/maps/place/Th...89bb9ee3ec610d
even to the color. I also found the same pictures that Gudern linked to, and when I overlaid them with this map, they were identical.

I have also said recently to a couple of people that I am extremely disappointed in the total lack of criteria used to judge challenges. To me, it's just "ohh... pretty colors ... vote!" or "he's my buddy .... vote!". I would love to see some of the criteria beyond that which anyone uses to judge these. And yes, the old boys network here is very strong.

So instead of criticizing Gudern for daring to voice an opinion, how about let's hear some of the criteria that you do use when you vote.